tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post8984552069869068034..comments2023-12-28T02:11:22.501+00:00Comments on The Streatham & Brixton Chess Blog: Can Amateur Chess Players Defend? At All?Tom Chivershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09850710685193416732noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-34904833656264201422008-01-02T09:25:00.000+00:002008-01-02T09:25:00.000+00:00I don't quite follow your analysis, Anonymous. The...I don't quite follow your analysis, Anonymous. The rook is already on g8 as of move 37, so 39...Rg8 is actually not a move at all.Tom Chivershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09850710685193416732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-44171350811672726942008-01-02T01:41:00.000+00:002008-01-02T01:41:00.000+00:00'39...Rxf3+!, it's all over for white.'What if whi...'39...Rxf3+!, it's all over for white.'<BR/><BR/>What if white plays 40 Kxf3 and then what? If 40...Qf1+ 41 Kg1 Qd3+ 42 Kh2 Qg6 then it is white who is winning, with 42 Qe7.<BR/><BR/>However, I think that black wins with 39...Rg8.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-14698020419931187392007-12-31T14:41:00.000+00:002007-12-31T14:41:00.000+00:00GOOD PLAYERS FIND THE RIGHT MOVE .BAD PLAYERS USUA...GOOD PLAYERS FIND THE RIGHT MOVE .BAD PLAYERS USUALLY DO NOT .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-7766429762845322162007-12-20T13:24:00.000+00:002007-12-20T13:24:00.000+00:00In this position one's immediate short term requir...In this position one's immediate short term requirment is stop the mate. The second is to preserve one's winning chances. Rg8 only does the first part - I'm staggered a player of that calibre could not see that. I quickly saw that Rg8 was no good and the idea of Rb1+ followed by Qc1 was not hard to find. Because I don't have a very good chess mind I could not have considered all the ramifications beyond about move 3 but with the clock ticking and in the absence of anything much else I would have bashed out Rb1. The one thing I would not have done is play Rg8. Black's decision to bail out to a draw is a major surprise.<BR/><BR/>PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-65187030892343597562007-12-20T12:58:00.000+00:002007-12-20T12:58:00.000+00:00Interesting comments!The position is finely poised...Interesting comments!<BR/><BR/>The position is finely poised in the sense that now is the time for black to in some way stop defending and start a counterattack, so Richard I agree terminological issues are pertinent. Nonetheless, the 'flow' of the game was one where black had been defending for ten moves in an attempt to win, & this was a 'critical moment' for that when he needed to switch his type of thinking. That such a strong player can fail to do so - he missed the idea entirely - I thought was quite interesting. Probably the readership of this post would have spotted the win had I written "black to play & counterattack to win", but the whole point of my description of the game was to try to simulate what it probably felt like to be black in that position... Ie, it felt like black had to defend, since he had been for so long.<BR/><BR/>Mike G I do not agree that defending & attack involve the same thing. Kramnik puts it better than I ever could:<BR/><BR/>"Defence and a magnificent tactical vision were [Petrosian's] strongest points - that's why he was so good at defence. Only a brilliant tactician can succeed in defence, and he had perfect sight of all the tactical opportunities and nuances for his opponent. I would even say that attack, rather than defence, is a positional skill. You can attack mostly on the basis of general ideas, whereas in defence you have to be specific. Calculations of lines and verification of specific positional features are more important for defence than for attack."Tom Chivershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09850710685193416732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-1906307343001203532007-12-20T07:01:00.000+00:002007-12-20T07:01:00.000+00:00I think this is a bit of a dud question while it l...I think this is a bit of a dud question while it lacks clear definitions about what we mean by "attack" and "defence". Let me have a go:<BR/><BR/>"attack" - make a threat<BR/>"successful attack" - see that threat realised (or achieve some other material concessions in return for the aversion of that threat"<BR/>"attack the king" - make a threat with the intention of delivering checkmate.<BR/><BR/>"defence" - avert a threat without incurring significant material concession<BR/><BR/>In the position in question, using the above definitions, one could argue that 1...Rg8, 1...Rb4 and 1... Qa1+ would (if followed up correctly) should all be considered examples of successful defence. The fact that Black had a better alternative doesn't really come in to it. The only grey area would be if White launched this whole attack, including presumably sacrificing a rook, with the sole intention of delivering perpetual check, presumably in desperation from a position where s/he was otherwise significantly worse.<BR/><BR/>In fact, when considered as a whole (ie. including the lead up to the position in question) couldn't the question just as easily be considered "Can "amateur" (I presume you mean "weaker") players defend?" ! ;)<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-60818267194094127362007-12-19T20:54:00.000+00:002007-12-19T20:54:00.000+00:00I think the idea (with a lot of truth to it) is th...I think the idea (with a lot of truth to it) is that there's more pressure on the defender because their mistakes are more likely to be fatal.<BR/><BR/>That said, I personally like defending far more than most club players do. Most people think you have to attack, and half the time that's why they lose.ejhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01582272075999298935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-40085170341137212742007-12-19T17:38:00.000+00:002007-12-19T17:38:00.000+00:00I think defending is easier than attacking because...I think defending is easier than attacking because there are usually many fewer candidate moves to analyze (i.e. you just have to counter the opponent's threats).<BR/><BR/>(But I can see there is a logical problem here as shouldn't both sides be analyzing the same position so the amount of analysis on each side should be equal?)<BR/><BR/>Mike G.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-34461510904889934272007-12-19T15:58:00.000+00:002007-12-19T15:58:00.000+00:00Is this really a question about defence, or concen...Is this really a question about defence, or concentration, though, or one about finding hard-to-see finesses at the end of tactical lines?<BR/><BR/>I think most amateur players defend pretty poorly, but not so much out of lack of concentration as inability to see that they need to defend until it's far too late.ejhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01582272075999298935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-26641019067125501302007-12-19T12:21:00.000+00:002007-12-19T12:21:00.000+00:00The quiz report will have to wait for photographs,...The quiz report will have to wait for photographs, scans, etc... 2008!Tom Chivershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09850710685193416732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37675897.post-1580703388868502392007-12-19T12:05:00.000+00:002007-12-19T12:05:00.000+00:00Wot no quiz report?Woot woot - as I believe the yo...Wot no quiz report?<BR/><BR/>Woot woot - as I believe the young folk are likely to say (when they're not collecting ASBOs).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com